Second Wind Leadership Podcast
The Second Wind Leadership Podcast is the perfect resource for anyone who wants to take their leadership skills to the next level. Whether you're a seasoned leader or just starting out, this podcast is designed to help you renew your heart, mind, and soul so that you can lead and live differently. Hosted by James Wilson Jr., a campus pastor and leadership student, this podcast features practical tips and engaging stories from everyday leaders who have found success in different arenas. You can expect new episodes every 2nd-4th Tuesday of the month, and James is always happy to answer any questions you may have. So, if you're looking for a second wind in your leadership journey, be sure to tune in and visit www.jameswilsonjr.com for more information.
Second Wind Leadership Podcast
Leadership, Purpose, and Personal Growth: A Conversation with Dr. Alvean Lyons
Prepare to be captivated as we welcome the remarkable Dr. Alvean Lyons, a nationally recognized authority in the people business. The conversation gets rolling as Dr. Lyons shares her educational journey, from a bachelor's degree in Psychology to a PhD in counseling supervision, underscoring the power of in-depth understanding and its ability to amplify divine intervention.
Navigating through the landscapes of workplaces, churches, and relationships, our chat zeroes in on the human factor, and the transformative impact it has on these spaces. We unearth the importance of creating healthier environments, and the role of leadership in this process. Leadership isn't a popularity contest, but a position demanding respect and sacrifice. We tackle the tough realities of leadership and the power to influence change. Moreover, the discussion sparks insights on the value of owning mistakes, understanding the purpose of your role to prevent power abuse, and the crucial quality of courage in facing the unknown.
As we venture further, we delve into the delicate balance of work, family, and self-care. Dr. Lyons generously shares her personal journey, including her son's diagnosis with juvenile diabetes, and how these experiences shaped her leadership style and life's purpose. We wrap up on a note of inspiration, emphasizing the significance of purpose and meaning in our lives, and how unexpected life events can alter our paths. So, tune in for a conversation that's sure to inspire and empower you on your journey of leadership and personal growth.
Check out Dr. Alvean at alveanlyons.com
You can learn more about me at www.jameswilsonjr.com Or Follow me on instagram or facebook @jwiljr.
All right y'all. Welcome back to the Second Win Leadership podcast. This is your host, james Wilson Jr. I'm excited today because I've got a special guest. I've got Dr Alvion Lyons. This is probably an interview I've been waiting to have for quite some time, and she is a superstar, nationally recognized. I'll let her tell you all about it, but I'm just super excited. Dr Alv, thank you for being on the podcast with me.
Speaker 2:Thank you. It's such a privilege to be on. I love you, i love what you do, i love the ministry. I'm just a believer all the way around. So I am grateful to be part of all of this.
Speaker 1:Well, i appreciate it And I am grateful for you saying yes.
Speaker 1:I mean, i know that I won't bore people with all my details, but I've had different encounters with you, where you don't know this, but I'm like a youth unofficially mentored me in different, different experiences. I'm serious. I'm serious And I'm somewhat of a fanboy, like you, and that are two people I look up to and admire. So, anyways, i want to be able to share with everyone else just some of the beauty of you and the joy of you So you are. If you would tell people just a little bit about yourself and what you do.
Speaker 2:So I generally describe it as just kind of being in the people business. I do it on various levels. If you Googled me, some people will see a relationship expert and leadership consultant or leadership specialist I mean they put all kinds of interesting titles on you. I do a lot of consulting work and a lot of advisory work at very high levels. I have been very privileged to be able to serve our community and then, more broadly, our nation, in various ways that are all connected to the deepest that I know of right now and actively working to continue to deepen that understanding of human dynamics.
Speaker 2:The people factor in every organization and business, the people factor and the human factor in relationships And the environments may change, but what we require and need as humans is quite universal, and we take that into our workspaces and we take that into our churches and we take that into our relationships, of course.
Speaker 2:So I spend my time trying to make sure that the spaces that each of us find ourselves in, be it at home or at work, are healthier spaces, and the healthier those spaces are, the better it is for all of us. So, and even where work is concerned I'll get on my soapbox here, but where work is concerned. The average person is gonna spend more than 85,000 hours of their life at work. So if your work environment is not healthy, it could be as damaging as your home environment being unhealthy. So dealing with workplace toxicity and having been some would call it a victim, i will say a participant in that experience on the receiving end of an unhealthy work environment those kinds of things matter, and we're not computers. We come to work with all of our humanness, and when we don't do that well and when we don't show up for others well and we don't lead healthy, we create some really difficult spaces. So I spend my life in various forms of the people business, hoping to make it just a little better, and whatever form it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, again here. I know the listeners are listening to this and I'm already getting excited, like talking with you. You've already started It's. I'm trying to hold back some of my questions, but why don't you tell people how? so you like checking out your website? like you said, google you and you'll see relationship expert, relationship strategist that you are running in a lot of different circles, but tell me the journey to becoming Dr Alvier Like. Tell me that journey.
Speaker 2:Okay, so I started my life, so to speak, my professional life, you know, from an educational perspective.
Speaker 2:So let me just in terms of education backgrounds, so people kind of know what's in there, before I kind of step fully out here into the world. I did my bachelor's degree at Hampton University and I majored in psychology there. Then I did my master's degree at the College of William Mary, where I majored in counseling, more specifically at a master's in education, with a focus on counseling. So I was a school counselor in the earlier portions of my career And then I got a, my first doctorate in Christian counseling and then I got my and that was in seminary And then I got my second doctorate well I should say my PhD in counseling supervision from Hampton University. So I have an HU sandwich. My bachelor's and my second doctorate are both from HU And so. So education clearly is a big thing for me.
Speaker 2:I think that if you really value something, you invest in understanding it at the highest possible levels so that you give God because we're unapologetic believers here give God something to work with. You know what I'm saying, like in terms of your career and your aspirations. I say to people all the time anything times zero is zero. So even God can only do something with something. If you give him nothing, whether that's no faith or whether that's no credentials, whether that's no like. If you give him nothing to work with when he puts his bazillion on it, it's gonna still be times zero. So my goal was to give him a lot to work with, so when he put his hand on it, it could be everything You know like. So so I started in school counseling and then I found that I was trying to make kids healthier but I was sending them home to broken parents, and so that experience led me into building my first business in educational consulting, which was really around kind of closing the achievement gap by putting together or forming a bridge between the home and the school and teaching both educators and parents and students and you know how to do this thing more collaboratively, because we need each other to be able to do that.
Speaker 2:And then that turned into some work. So my son's a juvenile diabetic, and so I had to kind of choose between being the mom I wanted to be for him and my career, and I was just passionate about the things that I did. So I had to trust God to figure out how to still serve but not be locked into someone else's schedule to do it, because I was going to be there for my son no matter what. And so then that is where the consulting began, because consulting gave me flexibility To say yes to what I could and no to what I couldn't, and still be able to be there for him. And then that consulting gave way to me being present at a speaking engagement. Well, really it was. It turned into a bit of a speaking engagement. It was a community event on youth violence prevention And the city manager heard me speak and asked me, after it was all over, to come submit a proposal to the city of Hampton to build a program for the city that really worked on this, this connection between parents and the community more deeply, but to help us use that to reduce violence for youth. And then that turned into another contract, and then another contract turned into another contract And it just kind of snowballed.
Speaker 2:And then the pandemic presented a whole different universe And almost everybody had to reinvent themselves inside of that space. So I found myself doing a lot of advisory work and that just took off And the truth is, every single step of the way while I was working on. I've always been working on degrees, i swear. I've been in school since I was 12.
Speaker 2:And every step of the way, something that was from another season ended up being essential in this next season And it allowed me to be able to serve in a different kind of way. Even the hurt that I've experienced made me a better leader, because I finally understood what was like to be on the other side of certain work dynamics that I had not ever experienced but read about. So every single thing, it's amazing what God will take and turn it into all kinds of stuff. So I mean I could go on forever because it is such a complex and windy, beautiful road with, i mean I guess it didn't come with this challenges, but it was a. It's been an adventure, to say the least, and we're just getting, just getting good at this.
Speaker 1:So this is so good You, so you, you've had, essentially you've had this really interesting career and beyond this career, you've almost lived multiple lives. You've done multiple things in multiple areas. Tell me, tell me one of your worst moments, if you could first.
Speaker 2:Oh my goodness, so it was actually kind of recent. It's funny that you would ask, because I was just having a conversation with somebody about it today And at one point I was doing a project. Because I care for people, i will leave it. Leave the company nameless, right. But the CEO of the company I saw as a friend and he wanted to change some of the race, the racial dynamics inside of his corporation.
Speaker 2:The corporation was not diverse at all And it had quite a reputation in the community for its lack of diversity, and I'm one of those people who fundamentally believe that who somebody was is not as defining as who they choose to be Right. And so because he wanted and I believe that he wanted something different, i was willing to help make that happen. You know like to. If you mean it and you want change, then I will help support that because I know the value of us doing work together. You know the human value.
Speaker 2:I mean it's one of the things I love most about FLC.
Speaker 2:Everybody knows that I'm a huge supporter, but FLC looks like heaven to me. It is one of the most diverse spaces that you will ever find, a community of worshipers who just love God, and it doesn't matter whether you're a neuroscientist or a janitor Everybody is welcome and feels welcome, and that is such a unique thing to create that trying to do that in the workspace is something that I think is just would be absolutely amazing. It's something I wanted to be a part of doing And, unfortunately, that environment did not want the change that it purported to want. And when it came down to me standing up for something that was principally not OK, instead of getting behind what we all knew was principally the right thing to do, the decision was to sacrifice me instead, rather than make the change. That was necessary, and everybody knew it, but nobody wanted to talk about it, and it created a very painful, very painful experience, because the people I loved didn't actually love me back, and it's very hard for me to go into a workspace and not genuinely care for people.
Speaker 2:You know, like I don't just come to do the job. I think transformation takes place when we show up vulnerably in a space And even when we have to do hard things and even when we're leaders and all of that stuff which looks like it's all cerebral. There's so much hard work that's in that. We were in the people business, so it was impossible for me to not come to love the people that I worked with. And when I found out, when it was all said and done, you know the stories and the lies that were written to be able to maintain the status quo.
Speaker 2:It was painful, but I would never have understood what it's like for people to be in or on the receiving end of being the diversity hire. I would never have really understood what that felt like emotionally had I not been the diversity hire, you know, and had I not loved that it wasn't a paycheck for me because I did not choose it for the money. I didn't need the money, it was. It was a passion project for me and it was a passion project and people that I thought were genuinely beautiful people. But we are human and sometimes we are not willing to be different than the kind of human that we started out and in that situation It was very, very painful.
Speaker 2:It will and I will write about it And I will leave names out, right, but I absolutely intend to write about it and Ted talk about it and everything else in between, because of how? much it taught me you know like that and so much. So I will tell you that It was so painful that I came off of social media for an entire year, because every time I would see.
Speaker 2:Every time I would see their faces it would hurt all over again and I did not want to because of the level of following that I had. I did not want to pour out of my pain Because I would have said things that were just because of the hurt that I was experiencing And I needed to submit that hurt to God so that he can take that pain and he can turn it into purpose. And The silence of that year almost like when he quieted Zachariah So he would not sabotage his son being named John is the same way in which I needed to be silent So that I wouldn't sabotage what it is the God had planned on the other side of that pain.
Speaker 2:So the work that I've been able to do post that has been stuff I am truly proud of. But I would never have been able to do that if it didn't hurt so much never.
Speaker 1:What? what do you say? You will, first of all, you, you mentioned and I want to make sure the listeners know you mentioned FLC freedom life church. For those who Don't know, that's a part of the church that we're a part of. But you, you mentioned Dr Al in this idea that you felt Silenced. Not not that you, you were silenced, but you, you were essentially abandoned. You, you were betrayed by people that you thought were friends. How, what do you say? because a part of your dynamic is navigating relationships, what do you say to the person who is in that space, whether it's an everyday leader, who is in that space, in their marriage, maybe in that space, in their job, in that space, just in normal? you know friendships. How do you, how do you navigate those things?
Speaker 2:So that's a beautiful question and the answer will probably surprise people in that It is. It is so much more about you than it is about the individual, and what I mean by that is that We have to understand that often the things that happen to us aren't aren't actually about us, and When we can come to accept that, because it feels so personal and don't get me wrong, it is personal for the person who's on the other side of it, right, but for the person who might be the cause of the pain or the cause of the trauma, a lot of times They are doing what they're doing and self-preservation, which isn't actually about you, it's about them. And One of the most dangerous spirits to exist, one of the most dangerous energies to exist in any space, is selfishness, because when I think about me first, i become profoundly destructive to others, because I won't do what's right If it means that it's going to make me uncomfortable, if it means that I'm going to have to sacrifice. And leadership is about letting go of the luxury of being liked to reach for the reins of respect that are only possible when it's not about you anymore. And I have come to realize, having been on the other side of that that a lot of times it's not About. Even though it hurt me, it wasn't actually about me. It was about the fact that I merely represented a threat to Whatever their comforts were. It wouldn't have mattered who I was, it was just that I represented threat.
Speaker 2:And just the same way that the human body, when you transplant something into it, the immune system comes to attack it because it's foreign, is exactly what happens in a system That is not familiar with what you represent, the system. If you don't do autoimmune suppressants, if you don't create a culture that helps to allow for that thing to be adopted and absorbed as one's own, where inclusion moves to belonging, if we don't make that transition in the workspace, the system will eat change alive. And that's what happens. I was merely the change that the system was rejecting and because the leadership wasn't strong enough, it could not create the autoimmune suppressant to allow for the, the Inclocation, allow for the connectivity, that connective tissue to be able to happen, so that I would actually be Considered part of the system and the body wouldn't go to kill me off as foreign. But if you don't have strong enough leadership, there's nothing to do that, there's nothing to move through the system To protect the health of the change.
Speaker 1:Wow, oh man, let's. So let's go there for a minute that you you talk about Strong leadership and a part of your dynamic, part of what you do, is, again, leadership expert, you know, nationally respected speaker, relationship expert. And so how do you, how does a leader get to that point, as as I'm thinking about how to change your system, or if I'm in a system that needs to be changed, how, how do I now, as a leader, step into what feels like Some, some, it feels it feels like it requires a level of courage? Um, what now? do I step into that space?
Speaker 2:Well, i think that the word you chose was perfection, right there, courage is the very first thing that has to happen, because it to face the unknown Is to face one's fears on some level and to choose to move beyond those fears. Um, i think that it was Joyce Myers, but it might not be her original quote, but the quote that she was, you know, would repeat very often, is that courage is not the absence of fear, but action in the presence of fear. You know that we don't Stop being afraid to be courageous. We just choose to move even though we are afraid. Right.
Speaker 2:And so the, from a leadership perspective, part of the hard part About leadership is sometimes you have to go it alone. Because the first one is alone, even if you have people behind you, you are going. When you go first, you're going alone, you're going alone Like. So that first step, even if the people who are right behind you are Lock step. Next, the first step is the leader step. So it requires a lot of personal work first, a willingness to accept the responsibility of what comes next. We're not always going to get it right. We mess up as leaders, okay. We miss the mark as leaders, it's okay, but it's? do we own it right? do we have the integrity to say Team, i know I thought that this was going to be the route, but I, this is not it for us guys, this is not it and it was me and that's on me And I'm prepared to own that because of your modeling a level of integrity, honesty and vulnerability That makes it okay for your other leaders and then the people who follow you to be able to make mistakes also right. And the innovation happens when it's safe to be vulnerable and we can make mistakes And know that we won't be abandoned in our imperfection, right? So the when you have these, these dynamics that exist, you've got it that you, the work starts. Personally, before anything else, you've got to be okay with you. You've got to be willing to get bruised and to heal from those bruises. You've got to make sure that you don't weaponize your power.
Speaker 2:There are a lot of things that are true about leadership, and when we don't understand Just how much comes with it, we frequently abuse it. And so, like there is okay, and I'm going to tell this quick thing, and then I promise I'll hush, but like, oh, in the little mermaid there was a scene between Ariel and scuttle. Okay, because I'm a mobby at my core, all right. So there's a scene between Ariel and scuttle and and for those of you who weren't little mermaid watchers, ariel you, scuttle, was the seagull that Ariel would often ask about. What happens up above the waters, the land, people, right, and so, because scuttle can fly and he gets to see the humans, he was always giving her information. The problem is, a lot of times scuttle was wrong, right, like, so he would give her a lot of misinformation. Okay, and so one time Ariel finds a fork and Ariel is amazed by the fork. And Ariel asks scuttle, what is it? and scuttle's response is it's a dinkle hopper. And so Ariel's like what do you do with it? Scuttle says you comb your hair, and so Ariel proceeds to do so.
Speaker 2:And I say this to say that where purpose is unknown, abuse is inevitable. If you don't understand the purpose of what leadership is, you will abuse it, and abusing is simply Misusing what it is that you were given, right. And the same thing is true no matter where you are. Whether you're a parent Misusing your power as a parent, whether you're a spouse misusing the love that your spouse has for you, you're you're abusing that, not understanding what it means to be a partner. Whether you are an employee who has Members and team members under you, it doesn't matter what it is. It's just that if you don't understand What the role is, you will misuse that and people suffer as a result of that. So leadership Is first the work we have to do and the healthier we are by extension, we allow for that to expand.
Speaker 1:So, so good. So I'm taking notes and I'm trying to, i'm trying to listen and take notes. This is so good, so, so, um, you know one of the things I don't want to hit here. Then I want to jump, uh, for a minute, but you, okay, i'll go here. You, you, i will never forget a moment that I, that I had with you.
Speaker 1:We were at a context, we were, i was at a men's retreat, men's retreat with our church, my church, and there were men I'm one of the pastors there And there were men saying, you know, hey, do you know who one of the speakers are, that the speaker is for this week, or one of the speakers? And I'm like I had no idea And I heard one. Some people were like, man, i, man, i'm. So there, there's a you you got to understand. There's a woman coming to talk to us about men's stuff. And I'm like, oh my goodness. So I'm sitting in this session and I, i'm like just preparing myself for the worst. I, for real, like I'm preparing myself to be blasted about how I'm, you know, stinking it up, how I'm not getting it right. I mean, i've been in men's retreat before and usually it's this somebody is saying you've got a man up, you've got to get better, you've got to do it better.
Speaker 1:And you said something that I think shocked the entire room. And you said something and I almost want you to elaborate it, and it took me to a spot. You said that you are good men. Yeah, that I don't know if you remember that moment, but it was. It did something for the entire room And there were so many other moments. But you said that you are good men And what I watched was a group of men who are used to being beat up and battered and tired now step into a space where they felt empowered. How do you, how do you, how do you help the leader who is feeling just burned out, worn out and completely just? how do you help the leader who's feeling like they're not good at all?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that is a beautiful question And, yes, i vaguely remember that, that portion of the leadership experience together, the well, the men's retreat together. And I will definitely say that you, you don't begin. Nobody is invited to greatness or the next level by being put down. You know like it is, you don't. You're not going to shame someone to increase, you're not going to shame them to the next level of who they are. You have to invite them there.
Speaker 2:You know, like and and starting from a place of recognition, that you are already good And I know that because you're choosing to sit here. You could have been anywhere else. You didn't have to work on being a better man. You could have spent your time however you wanted, and you decided that you wanted to spend it growing, and that already says something about who you are. And so, when we think about that from a leadership perspective, that recognizing that our people are trying, that our people are giving themselves to this organization, to this corporation, if we start from a knowledge of goodness, a belief that inherent in this is someone who wants to contribute, if we start there, we are far more likely to invite them to higher levels of performance than starting from what they're not doing right.
Speaker 2:Because the minute you start with what somebody's not doing right and we experience it as parents all the time the human condition is to self protect, right. So I, because it hurts, your critique hurts I put my guard up. Right. And as soon as I put my guard up, everything that you're trying to tell me I'm like I'm fending it off, like Wonder Woman in her magic bracelets, right. So I don't want to hear what it is that you're saying, because it hurts too much. So I'm already self protecting.
Speaker 2:But if we can start with you are good and mean that sincerely, it's not some little strategic nonsense garbage move, it's not about that, but to fundamentally start from a place of believing in the good first and recognizing that your goal as a leader is to expand the good right. So we've got to assume a good seed and recognize that we are going to have to water it and we're going to have to do weed killer. That's about the culture around the seed. We're going to have to make sure that we are addressing any issues that are happening with the seed, all of those things.
Speaker 2:if we imagine it from that perspective, there's a different way we come at it And coming at it, starting from the positive is a much healthier way to get people to take the guard down to allow you in enough to mentor them up higher, right, But if I'm self protecting, I have on the full armor of God, okay, Like, I am making sure that you are getting nothing in And that makes us ineffective as leaders. When I have my breastplate of no thank you on, there's nothing good that is going to happen after that, right, Like. So I need you to be open, And we can't be open if you have to protect yourself from me. So I know that, particularly stepping into the room as a woman, if I step into this room already showing you that your safest position is closed, we will get nothing accomplished together. So I don't ever want to put you in a position that you have to close off first, because there's then then there's no reason for us to be together. You know, and so and I take that same approach with some of the hardest things you know, going into corporations and doing.
Speaker 2:You know DENI or in my world, I call it idea as an inclusion, diversity, equity and access. Because people respond differently to idea, right, Because psychologically, everybody loves a new idea, right, Like that. You feel different about that, right, But DENI has been hijacked so badly that there's already feelings about it. It's been politicized in all kinds of things, from a social perspective and a political one, that it just. I don't want to start having to swim upstream, So we start with idea right That at its core. First, you're included, And that means that my white male counterpart needs to feel just as included as my Asian sister or my black female or my whatever, that everybody when it, when it's inclusion, it doesn't mean all of the brown people now feel great And all the white people feel excluded. It really means we're all finally at the table, right, And so so I approach it from the not what's wrong with you for being at the table, But what is right with having the rest of us there too. You know like so it's. You know it's where we choose to begin.
Speaker 1:This is good. So because and it's so good because you, you you just talked about how you operate in so many different spaces And you know, on any given day you could be talking to the chief of police or a local pastor, you could be working and talking to, you know, a men's ministry group or a female empowerment group. like you, you had you. So my question for you is how do you, how do you navigate, as I think about the leader trying to figure out how to get better at relationships? How do you get better at having relationships that grow you and relationships that position you essentially to become the leader you want to be? How do you get better at some of those things?
Speaker 2:And much like going to the gym. It's often doing the exercise that is most unfamiliar and probably pretty uncomfortable, right. So my growth has definitely been in saying yes to the things I didn't want to do, going to some of the events that I would otherwise have wanted to pass up because they weren't the thing I was working on right now, they weren't the people that were making me money right now. They weren't the thing that was my particular agenda right this. Second, it is in all of these things that were outside of my plan that actually ended up expanding me, because we don't grow in our comfort zone. Anytime you think about growth, understand that there's going to be a stretching and there's going to be discomfort and there's going to be an exhaustion, and there's going to be, because every form of growth is just like going to the gym. So you're going to exercise muscles, you're going to repetitively do something that creates a tearing first and then a rebuilding after, for it to be better than it was before you started, which is exactly what happens in business. Also, you're going to have to tear from what is most familiar to experience some things repetitively that are not familiar, to now be able to integrate that non-familiar thing into a space that now means that your leadership muscle is bigger than it was before. So the growth comes from intentionally. Before something is organic, it's often intentional. So the growth comes from the intentional positioning yourself in spaces and around people that don't already speak your language, that are not echo chambers, that don't already know what you know, where you could be the dumbest person in the room. You need to position yourself in those kinds of spaces, and sometimes you have to pay to get there.
Speaker 2:And what I mean is like one of the best spaces that I am in right now is a CEO form group that technically I would not have qualified for by virtue of the fact that I don't have the number of employees that directly work for me that is required for the CEO group. However, because of what it is that I do for a living, i support the people who have all these employees, i advise the people that have all of these employees. So I made sure that I said yes to an invitation as a plus one to a colleague that I didn't really originally feel like going to, but I liked the colleague so much that I was like sure I'll go, and in going I met some other people and we had a great conversation. I got invited back and then we end up in a conversation again that allows me to show who I am, and in showing who I was, they bent the rules to allow me to come into that group And, as a byproduct, i have built some relationships I would have never had with people that I utterly adore, and it cost me a pretty penny to be able to do it because it wasn't free.
Speaker 2:But are we willing to invest in the thing that allows us to be able to grow Like? very often we're waiting for things to pay us, but we don't understand that sometimes, before we get paid, we're gonna have to pay something. Sometimes, before we receive, we're gonna have to give, and because of that is the reason those are the ways and reasons why and how you begin to expand into these other spaces you gotta be around some folks that aren't the folks that you're around right now.
Speaker 1:Mm, mm. It's good. So I got a couple more questions, i promise, and I'll be done. But I wanna go back just for a second to the journey of Dr Alvion, and you mentioned something that your son and I hope I don't get this wrong that your son was a junior diabetic, diagnosed as junior diabetic and how that has been. It's it again.
Speaker 2:Juvenile diabetic.
Speaker 1:Juvenile diabetic.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm, yes, yes. And so you talked about how that's so pivotal to your journey and how it changed your, the way you worked and what you decided to work in. I would love for you to speak to the importance, because you mentioned purpose, you mentioned meaning, you mentioned just being able to navigate just tough seasons in life. but also now we look at you and we see the highlight reel. But I would love to for you to address the person that's kinda in the in between, that's like right there, smack dead in the middle of life, just happening to them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and boy does it happen. Like it, life happens and it happens. Woo, life keeps life in, okay, Like, and there's no point that you get to in your career where it doesn't still happen. I mean, i'm navigating stuff right now, you know, like with my kids, and if you're a parent, in particular, you know there's a quote by Elizabeth Stone that says that to become a parent is to have your heart go walking around outside of your body, and I probably never heard a quote more accurate than that. I mean, that is quite literally what it feels like and the vulnerability associated with having children in a world you can't control the outcomes or the experiences, right.
Speaker 2:And so my son was diagnosed when he was four years old And we almost lost him just months after his diagnosis And that and that's a long story, but I will, you know, condensed, i will say that I remember after he went into a seizure because his blood sugar had dropped so dangerously low, he was in the middle of the seizure and he was speaking to whatever came for him, and that is to say spiritually. For those who choose not to believe, that is on you, but for me, i have seen too much and experienced too much to not believe. And so here he is as a four year old, unable to see me in the seizure and telling whatever came to him, bring him or to escort him to the other side, that I don't want to go with you. I don't want to go with you, i want to stay with my mommy. I want to stay with my mommy. And I knew without a doubt that my baby was so close to dying that it that will never, ever leave me.
Speaker 2:And he's now, you know, a young adult. He's 20 years old now, and I said that that day that if my son had gotten to heaven before me, what story would I have given him to tell God about who his mama was? And I was not convinced back then that I had given him a good enough story, that my life had not been about the things, or my life wasn't yet about all of the things, that would make me proud before God. I was still in the in between, somewhere between who I was at the moment and who I was meant to be, and I decided then that I would not be just as concerned about my four walls, just my children and my husband and my life, and make it about other people's children and other people's four walls and other people's lives, because that my son would be able to tell God something good about how his mom lived selflessly. And so I, in the in between is the most important time to know what your why is.
Speaker 2:Why are you doing what you're doing? Because, long before you get to actually doing it, there's a lot of wilderness time in between. There's a lot of space between there where you're not fully, it's not fully manifested, and you are the carrier of the promise, right, you are not yet the manifestor of it. You're just carrying it And, just like a pregnancy, you have to know that that baby is yours, long before you push it out, long before you have to see it, long before you hear its first sounds, long before you watch it crawl and walk and then run the promise that you're believing for.
Speaker 2:As a leader, you've got to be able to carry that thing to completion and then, when it is complete, you got to be willing to raise it, and it's going to do all the things the kids do. It's going to do all kinds of stuff. It's going to rebel, it's going to make you question everything you ever did and everything you ever knew. It's going to do everything that a child will do. That's exactly what your leadership experience will be like, because it is parenting. You're raising a team, you're elevating it, you're investing in it. They are trusting in you. It's so much like parenting that I don't know anything else more. Equivalent leadership is that right, and if we leave right, we will raise our teams and our organizations and our corporations to the level that they were purposed to become, because we were willing to sacrifice for it to happen and we were willing to love and we were willing to invest. So the in between is so much about the belief in what's possible, even when you haven't seen it manifest yet.
Speaker 1:That's so good. So this is my last question. I promise What? now that you said it, i'm taking a detour now. What is it now that you want your son to say about you if he gets to heaven before you do?
Speaker 2:And so I hope more than anything that he never does right Like that, not that he never gets to happen, just he doesn't beat me to it, okay, like you're not to beat me to happen right. But I want him to say that he had a mom that made him believe that God was real, because of the way that I loved and the way that I lived and the way that I led, that if he had not known that God was real, his mom was proof positive that there is a real God. You know like that, when nobody else is looking, because the greatest sermon you will ever preach is the life that you live, right So, and there is no, you'll never, ever have a scandal if what you live outside and what you live inside matches. So don't preach what you don't live and don't lead in a way that you are not willing to have line up. You know like so I would want him to be able to say that God it lined up with her.
Speaker 2:You know everything that I believe you would want a mom to be everything you'd want a leader to be God. She was all that. She was all of that God, and you wasted not a single yes on her, because every time we get out of the bed, god is saying yes to us, because he's not saying yes to everybody. There's some people who go to sleep tonight and not wake up tomorrow morning because he didn't say yes to that next breath. So every breath, i want him to say that it was a worthy investment, every single one of them.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I'm not gonna be perfect, but that he was glad because he knew it was gonna come after that next breath. You know like he knew what I was gonna do with that next breath. And as a leader, you need to earn your tomorrow by what she did to do. You know like. So I wanna earn my tomorrow. If my only resume as a leader whether or not I should keep this role is what I did with my yesterday, i want that resume to say we are hiring her again today because of how she led yesterday. So yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:That's good. That's good. Well, this is so good for me. Any last words in terms of leaders the thing that you would say to the up and coming leader who is trying to get their second win, trying to lead at a different level is there anything that you would want to say to that person if they were sitting in your office?
Speaker 2:I would say two things. The first thing I would say that I say everywhere I go, is that the mission is greater than the moment. We have to, as leaders, be mission focused. We gotta know where we're moving, what we're trying to do, because if that mission isn't clear for us, then the moment will talk louder to us And the moments will always have the quits, the turnarounds, that it's not working, that you're not the right person, that there should have been somebody else, that it was a mistake when they gave it to you. The moment is gonna wanna say all of those things to you, but you have to know your mission as a leader. You have to know And so that when the moment start talking, that the mission speaks like. So that's the first thing that I would say.
Speaker 2:The second thing that I would say comes from the image that I have absolutely fallen in love with.
Speaker 2:I saw it on Facebook and it was tulips that were growing in the snow, and these were some of the most beautiful tulips I have ever seen, and the juxtaposition between those tulips and that snow was so powerful to me.
Speaker 2:And that is to say that when it is your season, nothing else matters, that when the time comes for you to blossom into that thing. That was the seed that was on the inside of you. It doesn't matter what the conditions around you are, it matters what the conditions in you are, and as a leader, we have to pay attention to the quality and the climate on the inside of us, because if we are getting that right, the season doesn't make a difference. Your elevation is going to come regardless of who thought it was time or it wasn't time, who thought it was in season or out of season. It doesn't matter. If it is your season, no one can take it away from you and no one can give it to you. It is yours And we are just responsible for doing the work that positions us so that, when it's time, we are coming through that snow We got to come through that snow.
Speaker 2:It's just. in what a way to be able to say that I'm not telling anybody else what they have to believe, but I'm unapologetically in love with God. But what a way to say that God does not care about the conditions around us. He only cares about the conditions in us. And the final thing comes from a quote from Bishop TD Jakes, who says that a ship does not sink because of the water that it sits inside.
Speaker 2:It sinks because of the water that gets inside of it At the end of the day we will navigate rough waters, but as long as the storm is out there and not in here, we could lead to safe territory. But the minute that the storms are on the inside of us, as leaders, that is how you end up sinking and taking your people down with you. So we have to do the work.
Speaker 1:Well, there you have it. That's listen. I feel like I should be paying you for this session. I literally feel like I've been coached. But y'all, this is Dr Alvin Lyons. I just she is inspirational. She is a nationally recognized speaker relationship expert. Beyond that, though, she is just such a phenomenal person, just someone that is easy to be around If you ever meet her in person. She gives these best hugs in the entire world. Hand them down, and she knows it, and so her husband knows it, and he just lets her hug everybody Like it's the greatest thing ever.
Speaker 2:So I just I love people, i love people, i love humans for all of their flaws, and we all need a hug.
Speaker 1:I agree, i agree. So I want. Dr Alvin, thank you, i want to give you your flowers right now. You have been, you've been such an inspiration for my life We don't have time to get into all of it, but you've been such an inspiration for my life, my leadership, my marriage, and you and Matt, your husband, you and Matt both have encouraged us in such a phenomenal way. So is there? how do people get in touch with you? How do they find out more about you? You've also written books, you've got podcasts, you're on a different program, you're doing a whole lot And how do people get in touch with you or find out more about you?
Speaker 2:Well, first of all, james, thank you, and there is nobody that I would have been more excited to be on with today than you. I mean, i just you. The feeling is so mutual. You're just such a good human and you just want such good for so many And you are willing to do the hard stuff in yourself to make that possible.
Speaker 2:I love sitting in our church and getting a chance to listen to you in the other role that you play, and it's so much more than just you know the title. It's the fact that you are that, whether you are on the stage or not on the stage, it doesn't matter. You genuinely want good and you wanna grow and you love real big. And it is experienced in such a ways that I am just happy to be able to do this thing with you. I think you're phenomenal, you know. So just know that it is so totally and incredibly mutual between the two of us.
Speaker 2:And so to your question about how do people get in touch with me or find out more about what it is that I do? alveonlionscom A-L-V-E-A-N-L-Y-O-N-Scom has everything You know. It is just kind of the hub for you to be able to find out all kinds of stuff and to get connected with me. My team will respond if you shoot me a message or if you need me to come be a part of your journey in some meaningful way that I can serve, helping to do the relationship thing, that human thing, just a little bit better so that we could have a better collective community.
Speaker 1:Good stuff, good stuff. Well, there you have it, family. Like, share, subscribe, make sure that you even rate and review, share this with some friends. This has been, in my opinion, just a really deep dive into high level, next level leadership, and I'm just so grateful for Dr Alveon Find. Like, get in touch with her, look at her website If you could use her as a resource. I told her I work a full-time job, full-time family. I just want to be an intern. I literally would just carry her bag. So, anyway, family, i hope that this was really good for you. I hope that you were encouraged by it. We'll see you next time on the Second World Leadership Podcast.