Second Wind Leadership Podcast
The Second Wind Leadership Podcast is the perfect resource for anyone who wants to take their leadership skills to the next level. Whether you're a seasoned leader or just starting out, this podcast is designed to help you renew your heart, mind, and soul so that you can lead and live differently. Hosted by James Wilson Jr., a campus pastor and leadership student, this podcast features practical tips and engaging stories from everyday leaders who have found success in different arenas. You can expect new episodes every 2nd-4th Tuesday of the month, and James is always happy to answer any questions you may have. So, if you're looking for a second wind in your leadership journey, be sure to tune in and visit www.jameswilsonjr.com for more information.
Second Wind Leadership Podcast
Finding Redemption in Chaos: JC Fowler on Overcoming Adversity Through Faith
Have you ever wondered how faith could be a transformative power even in the most chaotic circumstances? Fasten your seatbelts because we’re about to journey through the gritty, yet inspiring life of JC Fowler. A dynamic leader at a youth and young adult ministry in New Jersey, JC's resilience and redemption story is a testament to the human spirit. Growing up amidst a whirlwind of family crises and personal battles, JC's life is a compelling saga of overcoming the odds.
Prepare to delve into the heart of JC’s story as he shares how he navigated through life's biggest challenges - from his parents' divorce and his brother's suicide to his brushes with legal troubles. Discover how he turned the murky waters of grief into a path towards faith, spirituality, and ultimately, a sense of purpose. Embodying true leadership, JC not only found his way through personal adversities but also learned to use his experiences to extend a helping hand to those in need.
As we unwrap this conversation, we unravel the concepts of hope, redemption, and self-awareness in leadership. Drawing from his personal journey, JC sheds light on how to offer hope to those who need it the most and why believing in redemption can be a potent catalyst for inspiring change. He further shares his insights on acknowledging our limitations, prioritizing self-care, and how embracing vulnerability can shape our leadership style. As we conclude our heartwarming chat, JC leaves us with practical advice for aspiring leaders, emphasizing the importance of tenacity, continuous learning, and mindful leadership. Stay tuned for an emotional roller-coaster ride with JC Fowler that promises to leave you with lifelong lessons of hope, redemption, and leadership.
You can learn more about me at www.jameswilsonjr.com Or Follow me on instagram or facebook @jwiljr.
What's up y'all? Welcome back to the second-win leadership podcast. This is your host, james Wilson Jr. I'm excited to be back with you all. We kind of took a little bit of hiatus, a little time off for the summer, so we're back with some more episodes, and what you'll notice is that not only are we on audio, but we also have some video for you as well, so you can catch these episodes on YouTube as well. So I know all of my second-win leadership folks.
Speaker 1:If you could rate these episodes, review them and also, just now that we're on Instagram but YouTube, I mean now that we're there, would you go ahead and like and share, subscribe? I would love to make sure that we get this, these podcasts, out to all of the people, but this episode in particular is one that I've been waiting for for quite some time. I've got a really good friend of mine I would call this my brother and he is. He's a great guy. I'm gonna let you hear more about his story, but I think what I love about this story? It's a story of redemption, it's a story of pushing through, it's a story of perseverance, and then it's just such a beautiful story. So, without further ado, I'm gonna introduce my guests JC Fowler and JC. Why don't you tell the folks a little bit about yourself and then we'll dive into some more content, man yeah, that's great man, good to be here down in Virginia.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'm up in New Jersey. I don't have New Jersey. To be specific, probably the most important thing about me is that I'm married to the amazing Noel Fowler. Yeah, she's incredible, keeps me going. But I'm currently the director of youth and young adult ministry at a church up in New Jersey. Definitely not a place I expected to land, but that's the place that God brought me to. Still a student man and learning, learned a tongue from you over these last couple days. Yeah, man, just glad to be here so man JC is always.
Speaker 1:He's a very humble dude, very modest, and one of the cool things that he shared and we'll dive right into it is that one of the cool things about JC is he is a dynamic leader, like legitimately, I would say, as I kind of think about top five leaders that I know he's definitely in that top five category. His ability to look at situations, to take action, to bring order, but to also move people in a direction is just uncanny. But you know, this is a second-win leadership podcast and one of the things that you guys are used to is us actually sharing some of the origin story and about this whole second-win shift. So, jc, one of the cool things that I want to expose everybody to is that you now, like you said, you're essentially a pastor at a church. Your title is a little different, called director, whatever mature pastor at a church.
Speaker 1:You you are leading in different spheres, but you haven't always been in that space and you said you didn't even believe that you would be here. Tell, tell folks just a little bit of why that's the case. What, what, what about your story made you even think that you wouldn't be here. Yeah, I was, actually.
Speaker 2:I was thinking a little bit about this and I think, even just a fun little fact to start out. So this will tell you about a little bit who I am. When I was 12 years old, ended up doing community service, my friends and I broke into a place, did something shouldn't have done and I ended up painting a shed at the church that I'm currently at. Now, 12 years old, 10 years later and we'll get a little more into this, I'm sure end up arrested. Now I got more community service and I'm painting another shed at that church, 10 years later. I'm now running the youth and young adult ministry there, and so it has been a wild, a wild, wild ride, and so that that little bit just sums up the picture of what life has been like.
Speaker 2:I didn't grow up in the church and I think it's weird like to talk about my story. I can't not talk about. It was talking about some of the losses that came along the way. So when we moved to Allentown, which is where we are now, about two months after I was there, parents split, my stepbrother Nicholas committed suicide. So it was one of these moments where you know we're in the middle of divorce and we're like, oh, we're gonna get this new place, we're gonna be at this new spot, everything's gonna be better. Everyone moved in together.
Speaker 2:We weren't living at this small little apartment and then, two months in bam, I actually end up going to that youth center for a couple weeks during that time, end up leaving the girl I was dating, her ex-boyfriend. Was there important things for a seven, you know great boy that we had to take care of? But they never stopped reaching out to me and so that story kind of continued. And so you can imagine, right after a death in the family there's some brokenness. Alcoholism ran in my family, a lot of drinking, a lot of dysfunction. Parents did the best that they could with what they knew and the cars that they were dealt, but they were dealing with their own stuff. So about five years later another kind of moment I'll never forget I'm sitting happen to be the captain of the football team at the time right like kind of that fire of brimstone kind of guy wasn't, didn't have the most talent, but maybe I was up there with the heart.
Speaker 2:You know, yeah, and yeah, I was like five, seven. But I'm sitting in this football huddle and I remember just smiling, I'm just smiling, the Sun's beaming down, we were just leading the guys through some drills and I'm like after five years, after my brother Nicholas passed away suicide, I'm like I'm happy, I'm good. Three days later, in my basement after practice one day, I sin probably my leg in my shoulder, like my whole body. And here my mom scream, so I'm rubbed the stairs pretty much, took the whole flight in two steps, come upstairs and she's clutching this phone and she's kind of slumped over on the counter and I'm, you know, I'm like mom, what's wrong? What's wrong, talk to me. And she kind of just like, holds out the phone and my grandmother was on the line and, long story short, she said your sister Jalen died. Well, she died in the car accident. Well, I just hit the ground. And so at that time, you know, had already started experimenting with alcohol, drugs and my sister that's actually how she died her heart collapsed, drum related, overdose at the wheel and then she hit a barrier and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:But so that's when I was 17, and that was kind of the moment where you know all those things you say you'll never do. Well, all bets were off and I'm ever thinking like you know, life's unfair, so I'm going to be unfair, wow, why not. That took me down a road and, yeah, I end up at Seaton Hall University, get kicked out of there Crazy. I don't even know if you know this, bro, but I got locked up for first degree arm robbery. I didn't know that. Wow, yeah, man, I was just part of just trying to make some money doing what people do who live in that world didn't know anything like that was going to happen. The two people I brought together one of them pulled a gun, someone got shot. I ended up calling the police. Hey, this thing happened and I get booked to get fingerprints. Jeez, and the maximum security, essex County, $100,000 bail, 20 years old, like, just like.
Speaker 2:And I grew up, yeah, I grew up. Parents had some money. Yeah, there was a lot of dysfunction, but it was like it was crazy. Just here's where I'm at, yeah, and so that's 20 in and out of rehab. After that time, the charges ended up getting dropped.
Speaker 2:And at 22, I found myself in this spot where I'm like I'm like this is what hopelessness feels like, because all my best thinking keeps getting me to this place. What am I going to do in that church? That same church I was at for about three weeks as a youth reached back out and said, hey, you want to complete volleyball with us? And I'm like, well, I got nothing going on. I don't really have any friends at this point and you know I'm competitive. I mean, let's play some volleyball. That gets me into this mission trip.
Speaker 2:Long story short, you actually end up asking me to volunteer with some high school students. And yeah, I was thinking about that, like when did I know I was a leader? When does that happen? And thinking more about like I really do think that sort of calling, our calling, is more form than it is found, and that opportunity to serve with those high school students formed me.
Speaker 2:I was thinking about this quote. It's actually a Harry Potter quote. I'm a little bit of a positive nerve and I can't say verbatim, but it's this idea. You know, donald Lover's talking to Harry and just Harry's questioning his purpose, and he says you know, harry, sometimes leadership isn't most suited for those who seek it, but for those who find it thrust upon them because of need and discover that they wear it well. And I feel like that's just kind of what happened to me. My life had kind of changed and I realized, oh, I need to serve, and then people like you and other people gave me some opportunities and then look back and said this actually fits, this is pretty good. So that's a long answer to an origin story.
Speaker 1:That's a great answer, and there are some aspects of the story that I didn't know, and so I appreciate you sharing, man. I think that that was. It is the idea of having leadership thrust upon you, like you are. You know, when I met you, it was like man. This guy has it Like I don't know where he's been or what he's gone through, but he's got it. Whatever it is, he's got it and you know. So tell me more, man, as you now journeyed in to tremendous loss, you know really, really deep hurt, pain. You're walking through a lot of different spaces. What were some of the other things, like, obviously, the church that you painted on and that you the shed? That church was there. What can you think about any other things that help you experience this turning point? Or the second one, you know, meeting people.
Speaker 2:One is like the gift of desperation, right, some G-O-D gift of desperation, come on, man. And that's the space when you start to think maybe I had it wrong. And I remember sitting with a guy who had a story similar to mine and you know, for me it's God and nothing else, right. And so he's talking to me and kind of explaining how he is this relationship with God and he, you know, tries to help people and I'm like what I'm like? I don't believe in God. God took my brother, god took my sister. You know I'm not beat for that and you know, very gently not so gently he said how's that working for you? Yeah, magic question. Okay, well, I'm like, you know, I'm like work, rehab in, I'm out here at a yeah, it's just crazy. I'm like sitting here with you, anna. You know he said okay, and so I can't, like I can't take credit for the desperation, right, like that sort of just happened. But I think, like at hindsight, looking back right, like five stages of grief, right, that come not necessarily in order and at different times, but denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance, and for me, like I wanted to live in that denial space and I think that that might be the most crippling part because, like for me in my story, what I've seen happen is, if we can't like trauma, is helplessness right, but I think, meaning. I think meaning like Trump's helplessness where it almost disappears. And so to like, how do you make meaning out of that sort of loss? And there was this promise in this, you know, in that 12 step program I was a part of that. Said, no matter how far down the scale we have gone, we will see how our experience can benefit others. We will not regret the past, and I wish to shut the door on it Now.
Speaker 2:When you say that it's like, yeah right, like, don't you know what I've done? Don't you know where I've been, I mean that's crazy. But when you have someone sharing a story that's similar and they are on the other side, all of a sudden it becomes possible. So then you go not just okay, like I see where you are, but how did you get there? Yeah, right, like, if you want to be where I am, you need to be willing to do what I did. That's right. And so I got willing. I just, I essentially said, all right, I'm gonna call your bluff. You're talking about this service, this prayer, cultivating this spiritual life. Being of maximum usefulness to the people about me, I'm gonna go all in. I'm a kind of open nothing guy. If you can't tell from this story and if it doesn't work I'll go back to my life. Yeah, then it worked. That's good man. I want to tell one story real quick.
Speaker 1:Go for it, you got time.
Speaker 2:So that's sort of me. Yeah, good, that's sort of meaning. So after my brother, nicholas, committed suicide, we went on a walk. As far as we yeah, it's like a couple of his friends, a couple of my siblings my parents were dealing with like the dirty business of death. It was the morning of you know EMTs and all sorts of stuff and we go on this walk and I just remember the walk. That's what was significant about it. We went on a walk. It was sort of like we were like in a dream and a fog, all right.
Speaker 2:So now I'm part of this youth ministry, I'm leading the high school and I'm an adult, right, yeah, and students. Father passes away in a similar way and I was one of the like three. First three people. She called the pastor, the director and then myself at the time, which was like crazy to me and it was like hey, the student wants you to be here, like now, like respond, and I'm like, yeah, and I remember just praying on the way I think I was praying that it was like God making me an instrument of your peace, god making me an instrument of your peace, god, and I was just repeating that I don't know what else to say.
Speaker 2:And I get there, I'll take her on a walk with her brother and a couple of her friends who were going on this walk. And I'm thinking, man, yeah, this is meaning out of the mess, right, only I could even take that walk because I've already taken it and that's healing. And now it's like, oh, it's all better, there's not work to be, and I'm still learning ways that I'm informed by those things I've experienced, how they informed my leadership, my marriage, even my friendships. But like my eyes are open to that and to say hey, no, I couldn't speak into that. Another student recently lost his sister and just to say like, hey, man, when I was your age, I lost a sister too. I don't know exactly what you're going through, but maybe I could walk with you because I've actually seen something similar.
Speaker 1:So this is good man. You mentioned something I feel like that's the title of it like the idea of the meaning in the mess and really being able to lean into, sometimes, the messy areas of our story that actually give that, give meaning to not only our lives, but give meaning to so many other lives. So let's switch to. So now you're walking with this meaningfulness, right, You're in this space where you're the director of youth and young adults, and just walk me through. What's it like to lead in that space? And the reason I ask the question is because these are a group of individuals who have a lot of mess, right, A lot of messy. I'm a father of a preteen like and I've got, I'm watching just the. We live in a generation where they are experiencing anxiety and depression at a rate that previous generations never experienced, and so there's a lot of mess, messiness on TV, on social media, on just in the pressure that they experienced. So tell me more about how you are leading this particular generation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean that's definitely true that those statistics are wild. And they're not just statistics to me, I mean their names and their kids and their students and their families. I think we lead out of our story right, and so for me, like and you and I were talking about this it's never too late. And I picked up this little acronym it's kind of cute but I think it works for hope yeah, hold on, pain ends. And I think what happens is it's good man is when we could share that with students who are walking through it.
Speaker 2:And I don't mean like I think we need to lament and sit in that and not push past that validate, but we can always point to hope, yeah. And then, well, how would you know? Well, how would you know? Well, how would you know? You don't know what I'm going through? And to honor, like you're right, I don't know what you're going through, but I do know it's never too late. Yeah, and I do know, if you hold on, pain does end Right. Sometimes, like in my field, if people say, like I'm not a psychologist, I'm not a professional, so I can't speak into that, and I'll say, yeah, we got to know our, we got to know our lane, we got to know our boundaries. We got to work, I think, in conjunction with people who are doing that type of work, but I don't know, man in some ways.
Speaker 2:I see myself as a professional hope seller. Come on Right, like, who's got a market on that? Like, I don't think so, and it's the story I've lived, and not just me. Right, it's about having a team of people around you who have their own stories, their own unique ways, that they've their own messes that they're now making meaning of, and even in that process, and so adults that volunteer or staff members like hey, even teaching them how to sell hope and area have their own story. Right, like most people who get involved in a youth ministry for the right reasons, like are there because they knew what it was like and it was hard, which is the both end too, because being a youth today is different. There is similarity, but sometimes we can, we can. Well, I don't exactly what they need, because it's like, no, we got to listen, we got to listen for what they need, yeah, but everybody, I think everybody needs hope.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no.
Speaker 2:I agree with you, man.
Speaker 1:This is good so. So let's switch gears and tell me about man, what, as you were stepping in and you've got all of these experiences that have been formative for your leadership. Just walk me through. What. What is the random question? What? What do you feel like? What type of leader has these, or have these experiences made you?
Speaker 2:I think, one that believes that it's number too late. I would say that's the. That's probably the most positive side. People, people know me. They'll say like and there's a, there's a shadow to this too, but it's so exciting, so confident about the power of God, about the possibility of redemption, about the idea that it's number too late. And I've actually learned through some pretty honest feedback from people around me is, hey, sometimes you make it seem like you don't have any doubt, or you just got there, or you were just like you just came out of the womb, even though you had this story. But you just believe it and not everyone's there. And so to almost say almost, to talk, to share more out of not just the destination to where I've arrived at, but also to share with people the journey, even like a small sentence, like hey, I didn't always believe, hey, I didn't always feel like it was going to be. And then people are like, oh, that's how I feel now and it's sort of the to be in that space. I think.
Speaker 2:Another thing that is like work for me is, I think, the level of trauma and the sort of frequency of it that I've experienced. I have to be really intentional about connecting with things that maybe aren't as catastrophic but still deeply impacting people, right. And so I have to say, okay, like get over, it is never helping anyone ever. But I got to be honest. I'm like, okay, you're dealing with this thing, this little breakup. You guys are dating a couple of months, but for you that's the real thing there is right now, yeah. And so to kind of be in that space and understand that it's relative, but also knowing my own limits, is not a strength of mind, okay. And so in one way it's like, yeah, sky's the limit. Let's take this thing, let's reach as many people as possible, let's go. Nothing is impossible. We'll run through any barrier we have to. Let's do it.
Speaker 2:But then in the flip side of that, it's like well, one. Of course, the obvious is like burnout, right. You're like, oh, like, well, everybody's human. I'm human, I do have a capacity, I do have a limit. But this is the interesting thing and talking with you over these last couple of days has really revealed this to me is, by me not knowing my own limits, I'm actually limiting the people around me. Right, hear me out.
Speaker 2:So if I think I can get all this done, I want to reach as many people as possible. If I don't know my own limits, then I'm not going to be empowering the people around me to the degree that I need to, because I'm going to be doing it, because I'm going to be thinking, well, I can get it done, or, even worse, like well, I'm the one who has to get it done. Yeah, yeah, it's like wait, I'm one guy, but we want to reach as many people as possible, right, oh, what do we do? We got to raise up leaders there, yeah, and so that's kind of my wrestling right now. And so it's interesting how, like yeah, we're informed by our stories, and it has given me this conviction and this excitement of possibility, but also this like, oh, wait, a second, I've been through that, I've been through this. What more could happen? Like no, no, no know your limits and keep it going.
Speaker 1:So you mentioned the idea of limits, and what's fascinating to me, man, is that you've got, you've dealt with all of this traumatic stuff right. So that's a part of your story, but another part of your story is now leaning into this space of leadership that you've been in for the last six years. I remember us talking earlier and you mentioned that you were hitting some limits before, like, what, tell me more. And speak to the person now who is saying, you know what? Like hey, I'm, I'm, I've got a high capacity, I am hard charging. You and I were talking about the Enneagram. You're an eight on the Enneagram. Like, show me a mountain, I'm gonna knock it down. And but at some point you were sharing with me a story that you had to finally decide that this is not an area of defeat. But I can't. If I don't, if I do this, it's not gonna look good. So so tell us more about some of those things, the limits.
Speaker 2:That's good. That's good, I think, high capacity leaders. I don't know if I would consider myself a board of them, but some working with working with understanding my limits, I just the thing I've seen is one was like, yeah, goals are good, goals are good, but we can let those goals crush us because of why can't I make defeat, why can't fail? That's not an option and sometimes we just need to think about it.
Speaker 1:Isn't that crazy Crush the goals until the goals crush you. That's exactly right.
Speaker 2:That's exactly right. Wow, yeah, are they carved in stone? Like, yeah, so I'm in seminary and I was going, I had this goal you could finish seminary program in three years, full time. I said, okay, I'm gonna be smart about this, I'm gonna take summers off. Yeah, yeah, right, great, we'll spend summers together, some rest time, but I'll pretty much go to seminary full time and work full time, which is a little more than full time. Yeah, yeah, you're a minister yeah, I know that was the trick for me.
Speaker 2:And be newly married Throw in a pandemic, that's fine. I got hip surgery during that time. It was like, actually, our marriage we got married August 3rd. That September I started seminary full time. So our entire marriage was full time, school full time. It was crazy.
Speaker 2:So after three years of that, I was feeling tired and I remember I love what I do, I love what I get to do and I'm visiting my mom in Florida and I remember thinking I don't wanna go back. I'm like I don't wanna go back to work. I'm like, what are you? I'm like I love Like I would lay it down for what I get to do to reach students and families. Oh my gosh, I'm like, wow, I need to take a real gut check. End up calling a mentor man and he says anything that's gonna get in the way of you being with God and being the husband that God's called you to be is not negotiable. Wow, and here's like the highest capacity leader, like I know, right. So I'm like, okay, maybe I should listen. So I'm starting to wrestle with this idea. Maybe I slowed down my course load, but I'm like, can I not cut it? Am I not strong enough? Do I not have what it takes? And I'm thinking I need to be more disciplined. Like if I was more disciplined and I woke up and maybe I scheduled that every 15 minutes and I just stopped doing anything fun. No more TV. I watch a lot of TV, like nothing, and I'll just regiment my sleep that. What am I doing? Right, not only is like this putting attention on my marriage, just surely, time and scheduling, but I'm feeling tired and I'm like man, I miss God. I'm in seminary, I work at a church full-time and I'm like I miss, like what happens to that playful joy that we were doing? Yeah, couple, more conversations. And I'm like, okay, I'm gonna slow down school. I'm not gonna do it in five years. I said I was gonna do it and I get to.
Speaker 2:I had the privilege of leading a little staff team about four people, and they said to me a year later hey, you were a great leader before, but this is a whole different level now. Yeah, yeah, we see it and it it's game changing. And it was actually with their help, cause I was honest about this. It was like, guys, I want to do this thing, I'm having trouble, here's where I'm struggling, and I think sharing that with them gave them permission to do the same. But also it helped me accountable and there's trust there, right, there's love there, there's deep relationships there. But yeah, man, it was still hard for me to say like, well, I couldn't do it, but also I shouldn't do it cause there's other ways and God has opened up some other spaces. Like I wouldn't be here with you right now if I was grinding like that, you know so thinking about it differently.
Speaker 1:How did it hit you when your team cause you pause and that felt like that was a pregnant moment for you that your team said you were great leader before, but now you're at a different level To judge. The position is what's?
Speaker 2:crazy. So we brought in this consultant you know, coming out of pandemic I was awesome, awesome working with them and he did one on ones with my team and he said I can't share it too much, but I'll ask them permission to share this one thing that they all said. And they all said and this is not bragging, because I think this is like borderline burnout on health they said I don't know how JC works as hard as he does and doesn't collapse. And they all said that in different ways. Now, like younger me might've been like you're doing it, bro, that's right, this is it. Oh my gosh, you know you should be proud, but I thank God that I was walking with some people who understood, you know, emotional health and rhythms of rest right, and longevity right, like it's a marathon, not a sprint. Yeah, look at my funeral, bro. I hope people say I was a hard worker Tenacious is the word that I think of but also wise and balanced and loving and deep, you know.
Speaker 2:And so I got this feedback and so he's like that's pretty intense.
Speaker 2:And then, a year later, for them to say, hey, we saw you acknowledge, not only like acknowledge a weakness that you have, because there's definitely a weakness, but one that is uniquely difficult for someone like me to acknowledge, and body grace of God. But with the help of that community, like for that to, it felt like, hey, we're doing this together and we're doing it right. And it was just that confirmation and that's an intangible right, like how your team receives you and sees your example. There's no metric no, that's coming out of that space. So the juxtaposition is crazy. I said, okay, yeah, that's working, which has given me a conviction now to say no to some other things that are. I only got so much time because I have limits and so, okay, I need to be judicious to steward the time God's entrusted to my care with the calling he's entrusted to my care. But saying no to those other things have it's upside down, man, it's created more abundance and flourishing in different ways I could never see.
Speaker 1:But yeah, so this is good man. What else, as you think about this, what are the tools or resources would you even give to someone who was saying you know what? I think I'm reaching my limits? You and I had an opportunity to talk about that. Even I'm reaching, I'm exhausted, I'm tired, I'm feeling I'm not quite burned out, but I am exhausted from all of the things. What do you say to that person? What are some of the tools, what are some of the resources or things that you're like, hey, try this, do that, or what did you do?
Speaker 2:That's great, yeah we can get real practical about. I think, firstly, it is that awareness, and so my first question would be do the people that you're surrounding yourself, do they want something from you or for you? Right, and that's fine. Sure, yeah, you're. You know, you got output, you're creating, you're leading. That's awesome.
Speaker 2:But I think what happens as a leader is it gets lonely and heavy because we try and carry it alone and we feel like we always got to be on and people are always looking for something from us. And so to be with people like I got a couple friends who I said wow, you guys, give me permission not to be strong Not that I'm always strong, that's not true but I know I don't have to be strong with them, right, it's like that true vulnerability. So those, those relationships I think are so important, and that comes in all different shapes and sizes maybe peers, maybe people that have gone on before you but I think it's also given them the permission, through honest sharing, for them to speak into. Hey, and it's like don't go after the person who you want, what they produce. Find the person who you want, who they are.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Like it's not just about all the stuff and the things that they're doing, but who are they being? You want to be like that. That's the every day, that's the moment. So I think having those relationships super important, because if we don't even recognize it, then we can't take any practical steps to do anything about it.
Speaker 2:I think for me a non-negotiable and again this isn't like some like formula that I never, you know, but helpful was to take a full day off, sabbath day, and just you know, with what I get to do day in and day out, my phone is is my like primary means. It's all relational, right, it's all so it's my primary means of working. And so if I'm going to rest, then for me that's got to, that's got to be put on pause, right. And so there'll be a day where I put that, I put that thing. I don't even want it out, because if I'm looking at it I'm like, I think it's, you know, like I'll just put it away. And I'm so blessed to have a wife who holds me accountable. I get to hold her accountable too, right, and sometimes she does better, sometimes I do better, but we come together to try and make sure we do that. But that day doesn't happen without preparation, right, like the flow of life is not providing us spaces of rest, it just wants more. Right, it's just busy, busy, busy.
Speaker 2:And so if we're going to take a day of rest, that means we got to get the things done that we need to do the day before, and so it requires like a level of intentionality and practice, like man, yeah, and I'll be honest, when I first started doing that, I would hit that day and collapse, I mean, and I was like in despair. I'm like what's happening to me? I'm sleeping 12 hours, I'm like I don't want to do anything, I'm like just laying here. But it was ketchup. My body wasn't. I was used to like body motion, state of motion, right, body rest, stage of rest, so, so I think that's one of the most practical things. I actually stopped getting sick Like I was getting sick all the time and started doing that. And, yeah, I stopped getting sick and it was like, right, what do you know? That's that they weren't kidding, you know. Yeah, wow, that's just one of a few man, that's good man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this dude is full of wisdom, as you can tell. Just full of insight. Wisdom, just a real deep thank you, jc. What, what, as you're thinking about life right now, what is getting your heart skipping a beat? What? What is what right now is bringing you to life this?
Speaker 2:might be a yeah, maybe an unorthodox answer. I'm, I love where I'm at. I feel so much purpose there. I love the people I'm around. But given that I'm sort of finishing out this degree and discerning some of these next steps, what's getting me excited is actually that process of discernment. Now, that doesn't always feel good. I definitely, probably, like most, want that picture of like hey, what? What is the end result?
Speaker 1:of this look Like that's what I'm like.
Speaker 2:But, like, even just coming down here to kick it with you, like really the the impetus to do that was to help me discern, to see a different context, to talk with you, to just talk through you know me, so my strengths, weaknesses, blind spots, and I feel like in that space, talking to these people, obviously along with praying with my wife and figuring that out, like I feel like I'm being called to step out in faith and I don't know what that looks like. Yeah, but this idea that like God has more for me, yeah, he's entrusted to me where I'm at now, but I also know that it's not my forever space. Yeah, so I'm gonna be a good steward now, like I'm gonna give it my all, but I'm feeling excited by this prospect of, of an adventure and almost like it's always like more is yet to come, and I think sometimes in the daily grind of the rhythms, that we can forget that. And that doesn't mean always going to a new place or doing something. Yeah, absolutely. But that guy's always doing something new and and is inviting us to be a part of it.
Speaker 2:Come on, easy to forget, come on, but when you remember, I mean, man, what's better than that? Right? So that's where I've been kicking that around lately and that that feels like a challenge and I feel like if I'm not being challenged, I don't feel fully alive. That's just in my wiring, yeah, and so I've, I've appreciated that challenge Right Like I can't get complacent, I'll, I'll shrivel, you know, yeah.
Speaker 1:So yeah, man. So you get an opportunity to, you know, speak to a lot of leaders, and you get a lot of an opportunity to talk to a lot of emerging leaders. And what would you want to say to the emerging leaders, if you, if you could have your dying wish right, if you could have your, your, your last words to an emerging leader, what would it be?
Speaker 2:I think I would want to talk to the young leader first and say would someone said to me I was at a conference, talked to one of my heroes and said hey, what would you tell your 25 year old self? Obviously, I'm not 25 anymore. I'm leading all these people that are older than me. You know, I don't really have experience, but I feel called to this. I'm learning as I go. And he would. He said don't be afraid, just lead Now. Like that's pretty simple advice.
Speaker 2:But it was that affirmation that I needed of like yeah, not that I got it all figured out, that's not true. Stay humble, yeah Right, keep learning, but just lead people, or people are looking for that, not that arrogance, but that confidence, but also like they will trust you if you're going to be authentic and if you're going to give it your all and be honest about what you're learning. Like I think totally the other thing would just be like get annoying. Hmm, here's what I mean. You see some people that you want to be like. You see some people that you want to be where they are. You want to get where they're going. Get annoying, attack that be tenacious. Like I'm never letting this guy out of my life. There's no way you couldn't get rid of me, brother. You have to change your number and address. I'm being serious.
Speaker 1:Like you got to call to my house, I do, I do Crazy that's what I mean.
Speaker 2:Like yeah, just. And you would be so surprised how many people will even just recognize that sort of tenacity and that willingness to like yeah, you'd be rejected, like click, I don't want to talk to you. I don't. People respond to that. People like yourself. Other people are just so excited by an emerging leader who is hungry to learn, right, leaders of learners, right.
Speaker 2:And so I would just say attack that, get annoying, don't be afraid. No shame in my game. I will reach out to anyone and I'll even say something like this. I'll even say, hey, would you like to get together? Like yeah, we'll get together, and maybe don't answer with like a time or something, and I'll say, hey, I'm gonna keep bugging you if it's okay with you. I'm gonna keep bugging you till we get to sign your calendar, because I know you're really busy and I so far, the response has always been appreciated I am really busy, keep bugging me and we'll get it. Yeah, I said Lord, my daughter, my phone next week. Hey man's, really, I'm just thinking about you again. And what are we getting? Lunch, and, and so I was my encouragement. Get annoying.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, that's good bro, and you you are. You're not annoying to me, but but it is. I mean, even getting down here, that was one of those things where, like you followed up and I was like, yeah, like I wanted it to happen, but it was just like, gosh man, this happened, that happened, but that, that is so. So, true, man. So last couple of questions. Number one is what, what resources, tools, whatever Would you recommend to anyone in terms of leaders? Like what? What are some things you're listening to? What is some of your Watching? What are some things that you're digesting? What would you point people?
Speaker 2:That's good, I think even before, like a specific like, just develop a rhythm, whatever it looks like for you. Stuff, small, you don't have to go crazy. Yeah, I started listening all these people. I read 250 books a year. I'm like great, no, really awesome. But but yes, I think if we're not reading we're missing it and and I'm gonna use podcast guy, I've been listening to things like this podcast. This is good podcast. Listen to you. I highly suggest you know I do Andy Stanley's podcast, craig Rochelle, that stuff's all great. Yeah, I All. Patrick, once you own these books are awesome.
Speaker 2:You know Donald Miller has been been crushing it, but like a tool that has been most helpful for me that I've been sharing with you you mentioned, like my any grand number has been the anyogram and for the very specific purpose of leadership, yeah, what it does is it reveals our own motivations, our own shortcomings, our own strengths that we can lean into. But also it teaches that idea of like, empathy and like what people need and are longing for and how they see the world. Right, I need to help Help someone transform, take them from point a to point B. That helped them realize, you know, like how their work meets the world and that deep joy. I need to know how they see the world and what motivates them, and I think it's really easy, especially for me, to think everyone sees the world like I do, and so the anygram is show me sort of these non different types of normal, it's good, right, and then a million shades in between and say, okay, that makes sense, and To lead people, yeah, contextually in that way.
Speaker 2:So I think I think that's really good, trying to think there's like one book that has really influenced me and yeah, I think there's just so many. I think the point is that there's a lot of different voices out there. Yeah, and it's not like I think when I first started out was like I need to read all these things, I need to memorize every single point in this book. Yeah, it's more so like this process of formation. Then it is like this information download that certain stuff seep in, certain stuff doesn't. Yeah, and yeah, there's there's other ways to go about that, but I think just get after it.
Speaker 1:It's good, man, it's good. So. So Wait, this is it, man. What last words, last words to anyone? Anything, what, what it, what is it that you, you've got to say?
Speaker 2:I think right now, in this moment, it would be being encouraged. Be encouraged that just the fact that you're listening to this podcast, you're in the game, and Leaders are those who have influence and in some way, we all have influence, and so that leadership has been entrusted to our care and is one of the greatest blessings to Be able to steward it well, and so to be encouraged and it's easy to get discouraged and that's okay, but to surround yourself with people who are encouraging you, and the greatest news is like, if you don't have any people in your corner right now, you're hearing it from James and myself, right, like, well, be encouraged, or so you have those voices around you. Yeah, and I think we could do, we could do amazing things. Yeah, we're encouraged. It's good man.
Speaker 1:It's good. Well, y'all, this is been JC Fowler, my brother. This, this brother is, look out for him. I mean, if you haven't experienced or seen him yet, look out for him. This, this brother is a dynamic leader, phenomenal again, top five, high capacity leaders and beyond that, just getting it done. Really hungry for, hungry to learn, hungry to serve, hungry to see lives change. And I just love, I love his walk with the Lord. I love his spirituality that he brings to the table, but I also love just his deep love for people, his care. Like you're very Empathic listener, but also you're, you're, just you're, you're, yeah, man, yeah, I admire you, I admire your leadership, bro. So how do people get in touch with you? How do people find you get in touch with you, connect with you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, let's go. Man, appreciate all those con words. You're a great encourager, you know that. Um, yeah, instagram JC Valor 23. That's me, that's where you're catching me. I don't have a fancy website like James, but yeah, yeah, that's about it. Yeah, you can get me out there and I love to hear from anybody.
Speaker 1:And you'll reach out to him for not just youth ministry but he does some ministry consulting and so just being able to look at how you can grow your team, develop your team, but also I mean this this brother was leading in the middle of a pandemic.
Speaker 2:So anybody who's?
Speaker 1:been doing that you probably should give some listening to them. He's working on his master's of divinity a lot of great stuff, so follow him. Jc, valor 23 and family. This has been the second win leadership podcast. I hope you've enjoyed it. I hope that this has been something that's been encouraging you, refreshing you, renewing you. I again y'all stay tuned. There's gonna be tons more episodes that we will try to get out to you very soon. We're gonna be just working through getting it on YouTube, getting videos, so I'm trying out different things. But beyond that, y'all great, review this, tell me what you thought and again, reach out to JC and reach out to myself to James Wilson Jr Dot com. I love for us to stay connected. I would love to keep you encouraged. That was a great word. Be Encouraged. So y'all be encouraged. Let's stay connected. Love you. And that was the second one leadership podcast.